tuneinturnon: shirt being pulled down sexily (Default)
First, just a warning - I put no hyperlinks in this post. Anything that's a link is an ad.

J recently saw an ad in the "Casual Encounters" area of Craigslist. For those unfamiliar, Casual Encounters is generally for people who are looking for NSA sexual encounters, not relationships. There are separate areas for relationships.

This ad was from a triad - specifically from a couple who recently expanded to a triad and "are looking for the right couple or group to introduce our new girl to the lifestyle." J asked if I was interested.
The ad was full of contradictions to me. A triad generally indicates to me & J, anyway, that they're polyamorous.

"Lifestyle" is generally used for swinging or even BDSM, in my experience. I haven't heard it so much for people who are polyamorous.
But when they say "our" "girl", it makes me think of maybe a D/S daddy-dynamic, potentially. So I wanted to clear up what they meant. Turns out that was very difficult.
I got in communication with the person writing the ad, the man of the couple as was. Dude was using a lot of words I don't think he knew the meanings of.

Dude: "We are just a bf/gf/gf. New gf hasn't swung yet."
Me: "so you meant swinging? that's all?" [he'd already identified them as poly. not that they can't be poly swingers like we are, but they're not interchangeable terms, and it sounded like he thinks they are.]
Dude: "yes, swinging."


All right, I figure swinging = people who are not in an emotional/romantic relationship but who have sex, maybe sex with a side of friendship. Then, he continues.

Dude: "New gf wanted more people to embrace us."

So now I'm confused.

Me: "do you mean sex? That's what I thought your ad meant. But if you just want to socialize..."
Dude: "Sex. We want both. [NameOmitted] wants it all. She just wants affection from as many as possible."
Me: "You think you can generate affection via sex via a Craigslist ad? You can generate attention and hopefully orgasms but not necessarily affection."
Dude: "No, we think that in the one in a million chance we met a poly couple, we found you two"


Hold on, now. We haven't even met in person. Don't be giving me all this "you're one in a million" nonsense. I hate fake flattery. That plus the confusing terminology is starting to get on my nerves.
Second, he doesn't seem to know there are other poly people around. There are LOTS of poly people around, he just hasn't figured out how to meet them, apparently. I suggested a few ways they could meet folks.

Dude: "oh well i guess people that just want to fuck is all we will find on cl. Sorry for being excited that we found a couple that would understand a group that could all just be!!!"

I'm thinking oh well, I guess when you put your ad in the Casual Encounters section of CL, then yes, you DO only get people who want to fuck, because that's why they are there! They aren't there to find true love, and they sure as hell aren't there to find "a group that can all just be" [which apparently includes sex/polyamory/swinging but also other levels of involvement that were unclear to me - though not BDSM, we did at least square that].

But I'm still nice to him. I suggest maybe he cross-post his ad or move it, I repeat what I said about other ways they can meet poly people.

Dude: "so u done with us? u just wanted sex?"

I hate to say "yes, we just wanted sex" - it sounds cold-hearted. But it's 100% true. When we're swinging, yes, it's pretty much all about the sex.

Another thing that's 100% true is that J & I don't want to be in a relationship together with others, that's just not how we roll when we're practicing polyamory. As a couple, we don't want communal partners; I have enough trouble with one at a time, I sure as hell don't want the complications that arise from being 3 in a relationship.

So that's what I said, that we're not looking to get involved with a group. If someone wants me "showering affection" on her - and hell, who wouldn't want to have affection showered on them? - that's "involved," in my book. Dude seems to have gone away now.
tuneinturnon: poly charms self-primary pendant (poly charms)
I tried to tweet this but Twitter is being a little bitch this morning for me (from work).

Small world syndrome is working in my favor, for a change!

I met a new guy online, M. He told me about another partner of his who is poly and kinky, and I thought he might be seeing the woman I referenced back this spring as "New Girl" just from the way he described her. But I only just met him, so I wasn't going to get into all that.

J hasn't seen New Girl in ages, said they haven't seen each other because they're too busy, but she hasn't been too busy to start seeing 2 others guys, so I didn't think that was quite the whole reason.

But we got deeper into discussion, talking about exes and our past tragedies and more in-depth. It was really quite a unique conversation. I asked if he always gets this in-depth with people he's just met and he was like "hell no!" I felt flattered a bit. :) So anyway, we got to talking about sex life and poly, he mentioned he was interested in an MMF and that he was pretty sure the other woman he sees would be pleased to have a threesome with me and him, and it became clear that the other woman he's seeing is in fact New Girl. I said "her name wouldn't be New Girl? Username-on-site?" and he was like "yeah!" I said "J went out with her, and we all had a threesome once" and he's like "I've heard about you guys!"

Now, this could be a bad moment. WHY had he heard about us? I said "do me a favor - tell me what you heard, and please be honest. I was weird when I met her [I explained the reasons later] and I'm afraid I scared her off." He said no, she'd just mentioned this engaged guy and she'd seen him a couple times and had a threesome with his fiancee who didn't seem that into it. I told him it was too bad I made that impression, but I would totally have another threesome with her. I do think that if I had one with her and J wasn't included he might feel left out, so I'm mindful of that. It's not like he'd be unavailable... he's free almost all the time.

M asked if I wanted him to mention my conversation with him about New Girl and J with New Girl when he spoke with her and I said sure, why not. I also told J how she'd mentioned him (and me) to M and she really fancies him, since she liked him enough to mention him to this guy she's seen once.

Lo and behold, New Girl texted J yesterday and they're seeing each other today! J came home horny and down to fuck last night and fucked me well (even though I was needed to be asleep, since I had the early shift today), he had weird sexy dreams all night and was nice and hard when I woke up (sadly, I didn't have a chance to take advantage of it, I was in a rush because of the early shift).

The sex last night was a bit odd because J started climbing all over me while I was telling him about my discussions with M and he wanted me to keep telling him about M, which I found distracting. I wasn't planning to think about M while we were having sex, let alone have coherent conversation, which requires I change my focus from what he's doing to my physical form while my brain does the work. I'd rather have just had the sex, then the talking.

So anyhow, I feel like I've done a good deed by getting them back to seeing each other again, or at least back on each others' radars. J was wasting time on someone for a while that was making him unavailable but he's not doing that any more, and I hope they have a rip roaring good time today. :D

I told J that I'd be meeting M tonight and he asked this morning what we're doing. I said I had no idea but I was pretty sure there would be sex. He expressed some surprise and said "you're that into him already?" I said "yes. and plus, I'm working from a deficit, I'm trying to make up for that." And he sounds like he's going to be LOTS of fun!
tuneinturnon: shirt being pulled down sexily (Default)
Past business: the Day of Debauchery had to be rescheduled due to unexpected results on the STD test. J had an infection which left us both with a week of antibiotics and two weeks of abstention. What a waste of a four-day weekend!

Current business: I'm getting in an interesting chat with a potential metamour about how to communicate with her husband, the guy I've been seeing. I'm very blunt and straightforward. I have trouble with his communication style, which is neither of those things. I find it frustrating when I ask him a question and want an answer and what I get is a non-answer, whether that's because he's just being really vague or decides that's the perfect time to make a joke. I don't think that this is something that's likely to change. He's said that's just who he is, he's the guy who makes a joke first instead of answering the question. But it makes it really hard for me to get to know somebody if I can't find out actual information!

I don't want to be frustrated with him. He's a nice guy, and we get along well in some respects [not just when we're naked]. But after being with J so long, I'm really not used to being with someone who is so frustrating because we don't click the same way that J and I do. J and I are like two sides of a zipper and when we're pulled together, we make a great whole. We're very companionable.

Sure, he can be annoying. Last night as we were going to sleep, I thought of something funny and laughed, and as usual, he wouldn't rest until I'd explained the entire backstory to him. The thought process was "what if Ben Affleck had been in 'Rent'? --> I dont' even know if he can sing --> remember Jimmy Kimmel presenting Affleck as his mantoy in a tight shirt? that was funny --> laugh out loud." But J never heard of the whole Sarah Silverman f**@#ing Matt Damon vid from back when she was with Jimmy Kimmel + Jimmy Kimmel's rebuttal so I had to explain ALL That to him for him to understand why I chuckled.

With the new fellow, D, maybe his wife can give me a little advice to getting the kinds of answers from him I want. Or just how to cope with not getting the answers at all. Hm.
tuneinturnon: poly charms self-primary pendant (poly charms)
I'm listening to a book that I thought would help me at work and maybe help me have a more positive attitude about life. (Yes, I love self-help books. *hangs head in mock shame*) Now that I'm an hour into it, I'm finding that the meat of it may actually help me with a poly problem I've been having.

I have had a negative reaction to seeing J engage in PDA with other women. The exception was Plaything, a woman we were both sleeping with. I was amazed that it wasn't bothering me at all when she'd hug and kiss him (and vice versa) in front of me and that I was able to be happy for him. I'd hoped that me not being bothered by her was a sign that I was over it, but apparently I'm not.

The other night when J's new *[see below] was over and she got close to him, and I was bothered by it. My response was to leave. I didn't want to make her feel awkward when it's my problem. Since he & I communicate and care about one another, once she'd left, I told him I was bothered by it. He said he'd suspected as much.

I said to him "given that this has bothered me again and again, as much as I hate to ask, please do not be physically affectionate with your partners in front of me and please ask them to refrain too." He said he would.

But he also said I'd better get used to it since I'm going to be around sometimes when things like that happen. That didn't really go with saying he would refrain, but I could see his point.

This book I'm listening to is about how you can choose how you respond to situations - you can step back from yourself, observe it, see if you feel the same way when you see it objectively, and decide what you want to do. You can ask yourself questions to encourage your mind to get out of negative mode, questions like "what are the other people in this situation thinking, feeling and wanting? what are my choices? what's best to do now? what's possible?"

I'm not saying these are a guarantee to get me over my discomfort, but it's worth a shot. I can certainly ask - I'd be curious what he'd have to say, at least, about what he's thinking, feeling and wanting in a situation like that. What does anyone think when they put their arm around someone? What are my choices, besides (a) put up and shut up or (b) leave the environment? What is the best choice I can make at that moment? [For example, I think choosing not to ask them to stop just because I felt weird was a good choice. If we'd been in the middle of doing something where I had to stay, like if we were mid-meal, then I think I would have said something to them about it at the time... It's depending on circumstances.] It's possible, and reasonable, to ask for their consideration and respect; it would not be possible or reasonable to try to "make" them stop doing what I don't like.

* I don't know what to call his partner because they have only just recently met. They clearly intend to keep seeing one another, at least as far as I know. I wouldn't say they're involved enough to be "dating", certainly not enough that she's his "girlfriend" or "secondary". I suppose I could just call her his "lover," that's true enough, but it falls a bit flat. I lack vocabulary. What would you call someone like that? Am I ascribing too much import to "dating" or "seeing someone" - would that really be the most appropriate term?
tuneinturnon: poly charms self-primary pendant (poly charms)
I wanted to clarify: I'm not trying to make everyone in the world realize that non-monogamy is the natural order of things or anything like that.

Polyamory isn't the answer for everyone. Monogamy and asexuality and other models are perfectly valid options.

I'd just like people who are monogamous to have chosen monogamy because they've actually put some thought into it and not just because monogamy is the default.

Untold thousands of spouses cheat on their partners, so why not actually examine if you want to be monogamous if not, choose to be ethically non-monogamous?

Maybe I am a crusader, for a greater quantity of ethical behavior in the world, generally speaking.

Opening Up

Aug. 20th, 2012 01:47 pm
tuneinturnon: poly charms self-primary pendant (poly charms)
I have the audiobook of "Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships” by Tristan Taormino, so I can "read" it while I'm at work.

I unpinned it from the top of the journal because it's annoying to have to scroll past this for the new stuff every time. :)

Chapter 2 has a long self-evaluation and she suggests that if you're considering a non-monogamous relationship, you should think about and possibly journal about these questions or discuss them in therapy.

There are lots of questions, so I just transcribed them, and I'm going to answer them as I have time. I'm sort of pinning this post to the top of my timeline until I'm done.


What are your beliefs about monogamy?

If you've been in monogamous relationships before, how did you feel in those relationships, and how did they work (or not work) for you?

Do you believe that someone can love, be in love with, more than one person at a time?

What role does sex play in your relationships? How important is it to you? What does it mean to you?

Can you have sex without an emotional attachment? How are sex and love related or not related?

Have you ever had a fuck buddy or a Friend With Benefits? What worked and didn't work about the relationship?

If you're currently in a relationship: what is the state of the relationship? Does it feel stable and secure?

What are your most common conflicts with your partner? Do both partners want to explore a different structure?

Do you have sexual needs, desires and fantasies that aren't being fulfilled?

Imagine your partner having sex with another person. It’s important to be brutally honest, not censor yourself, and really let yourself feel what that would be like. What feelings does that bring up? What would be your worst fear? What would the best-case scenario for this situation look like? What would be an absolute deal breaker?

Imagine your partner having a relationship with another person. It’s important to be brutally honest, not censor yourself, and really let yourself feel what that would be like. What feelings does that bring up? What would be your worst fear? What would the best-case scenario for this situation look like? What would be an absolute deal breaker?

How do you handle feelings?

Do you consider yourself a jealous person? How do you handle intense feelings like anger, jealousy, and resentment?

Are you able to determine what your boundaries are and communicate them to others? When something is bothering you, do you more often keep it to yourself or share it? Do you have the ability to communicate openly and honestly, even about difficult issues? When conflict arises, how do you usually handle it?

How available are you? Do you have the time to nurture and grow more than one love relationship? Do you have the energy to devote to several different people and juggle multiple lovers? Do you have access to potential partners who have non-monogamy experience and strong relationship skills?

Do you have the self-knowledge and communication skills to be in an open relationship?
tuneinturnon: shirt being pulled down sexily (Default)
One thing I don't like about the Ethical Slut just came to light.

I was looking there for guidance, and they say, "just because your partner is bothered by something doesn't mean you're obligated to fix it."

No, I suppose in the most technical sense, you aren't obligated to fix it.

But if you love the person you're with, you want to be considerate of them, I'd think. You'd want to do what you can to not make them unhappy, and certainly not do things that actively make them unhappy, if it's within your power.

So sure, your partner needs to "own their shit", as we say. They shouldn't say "it's your fault that I feel bad!"

But they can say "I have a problem with this thing you're doing" and your response ought to be something along the lines of "let's see what we can work out so we're both comfortable with the outcome," not (as many would do) respond with "don't blame me for your problems!"
tuneinturnon: poly charms self-primary pendant (poly charms)
J wanted to write a writing exercise with me, to see if we can write together. I have no aspirations to be an author, but I certainly write, as you good readers know. So he set as our topic "Polyamory: the good, the bad and the crazy" - he actually had the name of someone we know as the third element but I changed it to "crazy" to make it more anonymous.

This could be a very very long essay, and it'll probably be broken up into bits and pieces, which professionals would probably call "installments." :) I gave a sort of talk last month - I was on a panel where polyamory came up and I had some really interesting reailzations about what I believe and why I'm poly and so on. I've been halfheartedly re-reading "The Ethical Slut", since I have it as an ebook and I can read ebooks at work on my phone without being obvious but I can't bring in "Opening Up" or "Love Unlimited" without people saying "you're not supposed to be reading a book, what are you doing?" What I wouldn't give to have "Opening Up" as an audiobook! Anyway... someone I've just started seeing is reading it for the first time (I think) so I was looking it over again, and so much of what the book says mirrors what I was saying last month but I never realized it at the time.
Read more... )
I see my bad outweighs my crazy and my good by a lot here, so I need to work on the good and the crazy parts more. Out of time for now, though.
tuneinturnon: shirt being pulled down sexily (Default)
Those following me on Twitter tonight watched me have a tough time at a social event. I was feeling insecure because, well, I just do sometimes. I'm an introvert, I have to make a great deal of effort to interact with people at social events in general, and I realized in the long deconstruction of it after J and I got home that nobody else at this thing is making an effort to get to know me, like even asking me what I do for a living or anything. While J says they're perfectly nice people who I'd have a lot to talk about with, I'm doing ALL the work when trying to make conversation with people. Nobody seems to want to get to know me. So that makes me feels uninteresting and worse about myself.

Then there was a situation where there were a couple women there who J was interested in or had crushes on (or just thought he had a shot with and was attracted to, I'm not even entirely certain). detail of how things went badly for me )

So now we get to the lessons learned. I was very clear with him when I said "what are we going to do to make sure this doesn't end up happening again? I don't want to end up angry and hurt, and you don't want me to either." to which he readily agreed.

I said "give me a heads up if you're going into this kind of conversation", since I didn't have a clue either time he did it this weekend and got an unpleasant shock at least once.

I said that I'm going to change my expectations of these events. When J and I go to a swinger's party, I expect that we might get laid, either separately or together, and if someone wants to take him off by himself, I can figure out how to make my own fun. So it's probably best for me to assume that from the moment we walk in, either of us might be getting propositioned or in sexual situations at any time so I'll consider myself pre-warned. I'm going to make my best effort at it.

Lastly, we established that, to quote C.J. Cregg from "The West Wing", "Before, now, in the future, anytime you’re into something and you don’t know what. And you can’t tell me that you thought there was nothing to it.... Anytime you’re into something and you don’t know what, you don’t keep it from me. I’m your first phone call." In other words, what I want to see in future similar situations is that he enters the room, he makes a beeline to me as quickly as reasonably possible, he interrupts what I'm doing and asks if he can have a word away from everyone else, and he lets me know what just happened so I'm not caught completely off guard. Because I really hated being surprised by this news tonight, but more importantly, I really hated not hearing it from him.

And I've just thought of something else - I fear this is totally going to fan the flames of my "I wanna have a crush on someone!" longing. Bah.

good news

18 May. 18th, 2012 11:54 pm
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read me!

Apr. 26th, 2012 05:17 pm
tuneinturnon: shirt being pulled down sexily (Default)
note to self to go read this article. "The Strange Credibility of Polyamory" by pepomint
http://freaksexual.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/the-strange-credibility-of-polyamory/

A quote from Susie Bright and Tristan Taormino talking about it:
SB: why is it that swingers have always been, like, the double-wide trailer trash of the open relationship community but when you say "poly" it's like "yes, I've been to MIT, and I've come to this decision, and ...
TT: yes, and I'm enlightened. It's back to the "I'm enlightened, I'm educated, I'm incredibly articulate and thoughtful, you know, and I live on the West Coast". Not to stereotype or anything. ;)

Even though I identify as being polyamorous, I don't know many poly people. I don't really know how to meet them. Besides my fiance & not counting my ex-husband, I have a couple male acquaintances who is poly who I met IRL. Everyone else is still only an Acquaintance, definitely not a friend. But I hear about them, especially guys who say they're polyamorous only to use poly as a cover for some unconscionable behavior. Guys who are really in it just to get laid as much as possible without feeling any compunction to be accountable to any of their partners. Or the "poly" guy who thinks is perfectly fine for him to have, like, 8 girlfriends but no way are any of his girlfriends allowed to date other men. That's all bullshit. So I don't know if I identify with their definition of "polyamorous" people being all enlightened and articulate.

But I've been to swingers events and clubs, and I do still think of the swingers as largely in this type of category they said. The guys are, well, stereotypical GUYS. They are obsessed with sex, may have baseball bats between their legs, think they're God's gift to women. Maybe they hunt or drive big pick up trucks or muscle cars, but what I don't think of is "educated, erudite, good conversationalists."

Another good question from this interview: does sex define an intimate relationship? For me, definitely no. I can't say I've had a very intimate relationship with someone I haven't ever fucked, but I can say that I've had sex without it being any kind of relationship, it was strictly bodies enjoying one another. I'd like to get to the point where I can have an intimate relationship with someone I haven't slept with, I think that's a good goal, but I'm not going to freak out about sex.
tuneinturnon: poly charms self-primary pendant (poly charms)
Other poly folk: Do you have any activities that you & your primary keep 'sacred' with each other and agree not to do with other partners? Is that a good idea? a bad idea? neither? does it totally depend on what the activity is?

In theory, it seems like a good idea. Strengthens your bond in your relationship to have things you share like that, and so on.

In practice, I know that my primary and I have occasionally intentionally or accidentally violated explicit or tacit agreements - which is something we work on when it happens. I have, in fact, broken rules and agreements we set between us before totally inadvertently because I completely forgot that we said we would or would not do X or Y. I feel like a right ass because of it, but it's due to a combination of a mental illness I have and the medications I take for it causing memory lapses.

I remember a conversation a while ago with J about something specific where we said "maybe we should have [this] just be something we don't do with other people" and I also remember a conversation where we said "sure, that seems like a good idea, but that agreement may in some cases make it seem like a restriction or restraint on us doing what we want, so maybe we shouldn't try to set a limit on [this]." Of course, neither of us recall the resolution to that conversation. Maybe there wasn't one.

I wrong a very long post here and it provoked a lot of thought in me, but none of it made as much sense or was as concise as what I wrote above, so I'm cutting this off here and I'll let the elaboration and discussion happen in the comments. ETA: I just noticed I had it set so only registered users could comment, so if the Twitterfolk want to comment, you can now, sorry about that!!!
tuneinturnon: poly charms self-primary pendant (poly charms)
I'm just gonna start by saying that this is extremely edited, because while I'm angsty, I actually would like advice from people, and I don't want to go off on unimportant tangents that will make reading the whole thing a chore and undermine my purpose. So if it feels like I've left someting out, it's probably a bad edit, feel free to ask me for clarification.

I started Saturday by having some awesome sex with my fiancee!! He had a promising date scheduled for later in the afternoon, and it went very well. I ended the day with the rare but welcome treat of him getting me off (a) without the use of any battery-operated devices, which is such a much more wonderful and different kind of orgasm, and (b) without getting off himself - I got to be the only one! 99% of the time if only one of us gets off it's him, so that was really excellent. :)

We tried that last night too - he wasn't feeling sexy, but he was willing to get me off (yay!) - but it was just too damn late after a long day, and he was making a valiant effort but falling asleep, so I told him to just go to sleep and I used a toy.* Then a little while later, before I'd even tried to go to sleep, he was getting all sexy with me, that fabulously creative and uninhibited sex that we have when he's been asleep and may not even be fully awake when he starts. *wicked little grin* So you'd think I had a AWESOME weekend. And in the sex department, it was way more awesome than most! I did work Saturday but it was easy duty, and I took a nap Sunday and that was really welcome also.

So back to that wonderful date J had with someone he'd like to spend a lot more time with. I'll call her the New Girl or E. I am thrilled for him! I'm truly happy for him. She seems like a perfect fit for him (in different ways from how I am), and she's a really nice person as far as I know. He says she's a combination of him, me and her own special brand of herself. She sounds like a really cool person to get to know, and I really really hope I can climb out of my anxiety long enough to actually get to know her.

She's very experienced in poly, and he's a lot more experienced at it than I am. I'm a newbie, though. This is the first time that someone I've been with has a shot at having a successful relationship with someone else, and I'm pretty terrified that I'll do something to screw everything up - screw up their shot at a relationship, screw up my relationship that I have with him... putting way too much pressure on myself in the process, making my anxiety and angst worse.

I know that if I keep acting this way, I very well may bring about the thing I'm trying to prevent - she might feel like he's not worth the trouble if she/they have to deal with me being all angsty, and I don't want that. I don't want to be trouble. I want him to be happy! I want to work through my shit so this can be successful. I told him it's not "so much trouble" for him to date her, but I have to talk about my uncertainties and insecurities and ask my newbie questions, and he's the one I talk to.

Now, so is she, which so far has been really helpful. Her reaction when I was being all angsty and stuff was to be worried on my behalf. That is really sweet. :)

I'm not good with process. I want to be able to realize what the problem is and decide on a solution and implement it and get on with my life. I know that's not how it works (damn it). So I've begged their patience while I sort through all this emotional crap.

behind this cut lies WAY MOAR ANGST - advice welcome )

I don't want to be an impediment or a worrywart or uptight or intimidated or intimidating. I just want this to be easy. I don't want to fuck things up for him/them though so I can't help worrying I'll do something wrong. I so often do, after all, even when it's not something this important. Sigh.

* My ego gets so fragile when related to matters of me getting off - I like that he embraces using toys and that me getting off is important to him, and I understand that arthritis prevents him from being able to devote the time and energy required to get me off manually, but manual orgasms by hand or tongue or a combination of them are so so much better! Those are my screaming-at-the-top-of-my-lungs writhing orgasms. The others feel like pale imitations much of the time, but better a pale imitation than nothing.
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J&I met a couple, M&S, on Craigslist. Had dinner, got along famously. Then M went away for work for about a month & we made plans to get together with them when he got back by all going to a swingers pool party where you get to swim naked, have sex in all sorts of fun crazy places like in the pool, on sofas and air mattresses on the floor and, if you're lucky enough to get in, in one of the bedrooms with king size beds.

my sad tale of woe )

In the car ride home, he was saying, you know, he never meets anyone, I never meet any keepers only asshats I end up telling you lot about, and I said "so, what do you want to do about this?" Because if being open (poly or swinging) isn't working for us only because of lack of opportunities, that's different from it not working because our relationship can't take it or something. He said he doesn't want to close off opportunities or potential, and I can see that. The only lover I have besides J who I have great sex with is kind of a jerk, and I don't have time or inclination or energy to go find others, and they aren't finding me. And he doesn't have any lovers besides me right now, because he's just not meeting the right women I guess. I just don't know how to make this work. I don't know how to get the kind of life we'd like to have from where we are.
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